From Crystals to Christ: Coming out of the New Age w/ Guest Elle Angel

Show Transcript

Jay Lee [00:00:00]:

Hey, this is Pastor Jay, and you're listening to the Daily Sabbath podcast. All right, welcome to the Daily Sabbath podcast. I'm your host, Pastor Jay. And today we're going to talk about something that we've never talked about on the daily Sabbath podcast. And today, what we're talking about is what some people would call the new age. And, you know, maybe you haven't run into too many people who would overtly describe themselves as being new age, but I think the beliefs and the practices are actually quite prevalent in our culture. It's in the atmosphere of social media and a lot of the books on the bookshelves. And so I think it's something that I want to personally understand better, and I think it's something that you should understand better, too.

Jay Lee [00:00:51]:

My guest today is Elle Angel Talada. She is a trauma informed life coach for christian women. And she's also the author of a book, Kinsugi Heart, how to Recover from past toxic relationships and thrive in new relationships as a christian empath. And also, the reason why she's the guest today is because formerly she was a follower of the new age. And so, Al, thank you so much for being a guest on the daily Sabbath today.

Elle Angel [00:01:16]:

Thanks for having me.

Jay Lee [00:01:18]:

So before we jump into talking about new age, I first wanted to just kind of hear a little bit more about your book, Kinsugi Heart. Would you just mind telling us a little bit about what it's about, where the book comes from?

Elle Angel [00:01:30]:

So Kinsugi heart is for the highly sensitive Christian who has been through many toxic relationships, tends to get in toxic relationship after toxic relationship, and is having a really difficult time connecting to God, finding equilibrium, finding a healthy balance in their relationships, and moving forward. I found that after working with these individuals for the last eleven years, that they are often so lost and can often go into the new age because they are seeking that connection and that closeness with God, that they kind of stumble into the new age movement.

Jay Lee [00:02:16]:

I see.

Elle Angel [00:02:16]:

So this book both addresses that and addresses the pains that they are holding on to and how to recover and bring God into the healing process.

Jay Lee [00:02:29]:

Okay, so it sounds like the book then, and your work are very much connected to sort of your past experience with being in the new age.

Elle Angel [00:02:38]:

Yes. I didn't want to leave that behind. I learned a lot while I was in the new age movement, and I wanted to bring my experience into my coaching and my teaching so I could help others who have stumbled into that movement as well.

Jay Lee [00:02:55]:

Well, I think that's a perfect segue then, into this conversation, which honestly, I have a lot of questions about, and so I'm thankful for you that you can be here to share some of your experiences. But I think just the term new age is kind of ambiguous for a lot of people that maybe we've heard it, but we don't really know what it means. And so would you mind just kind of just giving us a basic definition of what is the new age? Are there some core beliefs? What is it exactly?

Elle Angel [00:03:24]:

So new age to me is a collection of many practices and many belief systems. And they tend to come from different spiritual viewpoints, different religions, and it's kind of all lumped into one movement. So you might find some christian terms, some buddhist terms, they borrow. They borrow from different religions and kind of lump it all into one. And yes, there are definitely beliefs within there. Like one of the biggest ones that many people talk about, that many are familiar with is the law of attraction. So that's the idea that like attracts like unto itself. And so they believe that if you are positive, then you're only going to bring positivity into your life.

Elle Angel [00:04:14]:

If you think these certain thoughts and if you do these certain things that are in alignment with that, then you're only going to get positive results in your life. You're going to manifest them into your life. And so you are the God of your reality, you and the universe. So God is stripped of his name. You and the universe are one, and you're heightened. You're on this other level right when you go into the new age. So it gives you a very inflated sense of self importance that a lot of people are missing. They want to feel special, they want to feel elevated because the world is, can be a dark place.

Elle Angel [00:04:57]:

And so they find that sense of importance in new age. There's also the belief that basically all roads lead to heaven. God, sorry, the universe is accepting of all ways and you're loved no matter what it is that you do like, it's all accepted. It's all lumped into one. And that the universe or God doesn't have hates, he doesn't have a gender, he doesn't have a personality, really. It's more of like a thing. And so that means that they can do as that wilt. Right.

Elle Angel [00:05:30]:

And so that leaves a lot of room for darkness to come in and be accepted that it's just okay. And the universe doesn't mind either way. And I'm going to go to heaven anyways.

Jay Lee [00:05:41]:

So, I mean, a lot of what you just described, I feel like, is a lot of kind of some of what I see on social media a lot. So a lot of those kinds of concepts and terms, the law of attraction, the universe. Just out of curiosity. So I think I was first introduced to the concept of the law of attraction from the book the Secret, which was, I don't know if it's how popular it is now, but it was very popular, kind of maybe when I was in college. Is the secret also kind of really a thing still, or is it more just the law of attraction, not necessarily the secret?

Elle Angel [00:06:17]:

Well, that has developed into different books, and there's many different teachers that appeared in that movie. Right. And so all those different teachers have continued and brought that law of attraction into their work. So it's spread. So I think it's much bigger than just the book now. I see everywhere. It's in entertainment. It's everywhere and social, like you said, interesting.

Jay Lee [00:06:41]:

And then the other thing that you said, I think that's really interesting, is that in some sense, new age kind of brings together a lot of different concepts from a lot of different religions. So would you say, kind of, in your experience, what you've seen, is it that there's elements from many different religions, or does it feel like they're sort of like, here's the christian flavor of new age, but here's sort of the buddhist flavor of new age, and people sort of maybe fit into almost like, different flavors of new age? Or is it more just. No, there's just kind of these concepts, but it's completely its own thing.

Elle Angel [00:07:15]:

No, I would say that there are a lot of people that are in new age that believe in karma. Right. That that's just borrowed. There's a lot of people in New age that believe in what's called Christ consciousness. So that the belief is that Jesus came here to teach us how to attain Christ consciousness, so this place of being, and that anybody could achieve that while they're here, similar to enlightenment, and then they could ascend. So that's another really big piece of it, is this ascension process. Right. So there's a lot within new age that makes people want to just transcend this existence.

Elle Angel [00:07:58]:

And you'll find that in their language a lot of times. So when they describe things, their description often isn't linear. There's a lot of. How would I describe it? It's not so clear cut difficult to understand. It's like a lingo. Like, you have to be able to speak that language to understand what it is that they're saying, because they have so many different terms, they have their own language. It's interesting. So basically, Christ consciousness, that's one of the things that they borrowed from Christianity, and they changed it, they manipulated it.

Elle Angel [00:08:30]:

So that's another thing that they will work to become, because they believe that Jesus is an ascended master, not that his death on the cross really, that goes unsaid. That doesn't play any importance. It's what he taught and that we could meditate our way into Christ consciousness. Those are just a couple of things.

Jay Lee [00:08:51]:

Oh, interesting. Yeah. So it's almost like he's similar to kind of Hinduism and Budhism and reaching enlightenment. It's just Jesus is an enlightened master or teacher, like you were saying. Interesting.

Elle Angel [00:09:02]:

Basically, yes.

Jay Lee [00:09:04]:

Now, here's something, and I don't know how big of a deal this is in new age. I guess I'm not even 100% sure this is a part of new age. I think it is. So you can correct me if I'm wrong, but what is the deal with crystals? Because I feel like I see stuff about crystals all over the place. I have no clue what's going on with that. I think it's kind of new age, but honestly, I don't know. Could you tell me a little bit more about crystals?

Elle Angel [00:09:29]:

Yeah. So crystals are such a hot topic, right? Like, for one, they're beautiful. They're beautiful to look at. But where new age comes in is that they use crystals for specific things. So they assign meanings to each of the crystals. So this one brings about healing, this one brings about protection. This one is for finances, financial abundance. And so in order to bring about that result, they will bring crystals into certain areas of their homes or certain areas of their life to attain that.

Elle Angel [00:10:00]:

They can also use crystals for healing, to do crystal healing, to do different rituals as well. There's many uses for them. They're also used for things like scrying. So that's a crystal ball. And you're gazing into the crystal ball so that you can see other people, you can see future events, you can see different things.

Jay Lee [00:10:25]:

Wow.

Elle Angel [00:10:26]:

Different types of crystals are used for different purposes, but also the cut of the crystal has its own use as well. So a crystal ball has that use of scrying. A crystal wand can be used in healing ceremonies. There are points to direct it. There's a lot of details that are.

Jay Lee [00:10:47]:

In it, for sure. It sounds like it gets pretty deep.

Elle Angel [00:10:50]:

Okay.

Jay Lee [00:10:50]:

So it sounds like it's almost like an amulet or even kind of an idol. The way that some religions use idols, maybe in other religions, they associate those idols with particular gods, but similar kinds of thing. There's one for finance and one for health and things like that. Wow, that's very interesting.

Elle Angel [00:11:10]:

So the issues with crystals is not the crystal in and of itself, but that crystals can be used as gateways, they can be used as portals. So in the occult, you can use a crystal as a way to access somebody else. So when they are doing their rituals to affect another individual on a negative level or for a spell or these types of things, crystals can be used as a doorway into that person's life, both for somebody doing occult work, but also for demons or harmful spirits to come through as well. So we know that there are crystals in scripture, and crystals are God's creation. Right. So this is where a lot of people butt heads. Crystals are God's creation. Yes.

Elle Angel [00:11:57]:

You can pray over them and you can just use them to. You can use them in your jewelry, you use them for whatever it is that you want. But the issue is that they can be used for harm when they get into the wrong hands or when somebody else is trying to get into your life. So that's where there's a little bit of conflict there between people who just want to keep crystals, to keep them and don't see anything wrong with them, and then other people who use them for different purposes.

Jay Lee [00:12:28]:

Interesting. So basically, some people would view crystals as, it's just a crystal, just like a rock. There's nothing necessarily significant about the crystal itself. Whereas I think what you're saying is other people feel like that there are actually spiritual things associated with these crystals, and it's not something that we should just be like, hey, I'm just going to put this up on my shelf because I think it looks pretty like it's deeper than that. And there's more significance to these elements.

Elle Angel [00:12:59]:

100%.

Jay Lee [00:13:00]:

And then a word that you use, there is something else that I've also always had a lot of curiosity about the occult, which is also another term that I feel like is kind of ambiguous. And I don't really know exactly how to define the occult, but just some of the things that you're describing about how people use crystals and spells and having access and visibility into other people's lives. Yeah, I mean, that sounds like what I would typically have thought of as something like witchcraft. Occult. So for you, would you say new age and occult and maybe witchcraft? Are these pretty much kind of one and the same things, or they just have a lot of overlap? Yeah. What's the relationship between these things?

Elle Angel [00:13:45]:

So new age is a collection more of different beliefs and rituals and practices from different spiritual backgrounds or religions, and occult is one of them. So there are harmless things within new age. There are some things that are truths that you can bring in, but the enemy will have some bit of truth in there. And then it's twisted, right, just so that you can't accept the whole thing as it is. So the occult practices are absolutely mixed, right into new age. Mediumship is just one of them. So the tarot cards, divination practices, these are just a couple of things that they use. Spells can be found in that as well.

Elle Angel [00:14:32]:

It kind of depends on how deep you go. When I was in the new age, that wasn't something that ever interested me. I kind of always stayed away from that side of things. I didn't do spells, but you definitely can and bring in certain herbs and mixes to bring about specific results. So that would be occulta as well.

Jay Lee [00:14:53]:

Wow. The more and more you tell me, it just kind of feels like the more deeper and deeper it gets. So I'm curious then, for you, how did you find yourself in the new age? What led you into it? How deep into it were you?

Elle Angel [00:15:16]:

So the secret also was the doorway for me and my husband as well, actually, into the new age. And why it was so appealing was because it gave me a sense of self importance when I did not feel important at all. I was going through a really difficult time in my life, and I felt like what the secret presented to me made me feel like life was magical and that I actually had power to shape my own reality. And that made me feel like I could do something. It gave me control over certain things in my life, even if it was a false sense of control. So that was how I came into it. And then from there, I had a really deep need to help people. And so I became certified in multiple healing modalities, like Reiki, angel cards.

Elle Angel [00:16:16]:

I learned to read angel cards and do different types of healing techniques, use crystals, these types of things, to be able to work with my clients, akashic record reading as well. So I had multiple certifications to help that person on a soul level, mind level, energetic level, to feel better. So those were the different areas that I went into when it came to mediumship. That was something that came through. Sometimes. That was something that I dabbled in. I dabbled in tarot cards as well. I had experiences with the darker side of things.

Elle Angel [00:16:57]:

Unwillingly. That wasn't a place that I wanted to go to. But the thing is that when you are a Christian, you have legal right to access the spiritual realm. We're taught how to do that in know. We're taught how to pray. We're taught how to fight back spiritually. We have Jesus in the desert as an example, right, in having scripture and to stand strong in his word and God's promises. But when you are in new age and you don't have a firm foundation of scripture, you don't have a very deep relationship with God, or you have a relationship with something that you're not sure is God.

Elle Angel [00:17:33]:

It's a dangerous place to be in. It's a very dangerous place to be in because there are practices like having spirit guides and calling certain guides in, calling certain gods and goddesses in. And the reality is that you assume that they are good and that they're going to tell the truth. But as a Christian, you know that they lie. You know that the enemy lies, right? And he kills, he destroys these types of things. But when you're in new age and you don't have authority, you don't have the spiritual protection, and you're just navigating this spiritual realm. Those things exist, demons exist, spirits exist, the enemy exists, and they will lie to get you to do whatever it is that they want you to do. And you are unknowingly opening up the door into your house, into your life, into your family, and allowing for these energies to come and be there.

Elle Angel [00:18:29]:

And you're entertaining them. So sometimes they have different altars. And by altar, I mean similar to an altar that you would find in church. And they'll have crystals. They have pictures of the different angels or the different guides that they are calling on, and they will offer them things. And so as a Christian, when you have that firm foundation in scripture, you're like, no, don't do those things, are not good things to do. But when you're in new age, you're like, oh, I'm making them happy. I want their guidance.

Elle Angel [00:19:01]:

They're going to bring about this specific result in my life, and I trust that they're telling the truth, and they literally can totally wreak havoc in your life.

Jay Lee [00:19:11]:

Wow.

Elle Angel [00:19:11]:

So it's a dangerous place to be in.

Jay Lee [00:19:13]:

Yeah. First of all, everything that you just said, I'm just kind of like sitting here, like, listening and just my mind is sort of racing at that. So it sounds like for you, the appeal of it was because it felt like it gave you a sense of control and power when you felt like you didn't have any. And that was a very desirable thought, that you had the ability to sort of shape destiny and shape your life. And it also sounds like you're saying that for a lot of people that the deeper and deeper they get involved, there is this aspect of channeling or connecting with these entities in the universe. And really who they're connecting with is demons. But people in the new age, they don't realize that. They think they're connecting to some sort of benevolent spirit or what was it, a guiding spirit or spirit guide? Spirit guide.

Jay Lee [00:20:09]:

Yeah, a spirit guide. So they think they might be engaging with their spirit guide or a spirit guide, but really, the reality is they're engaging with demons. And, I mean, one of the things that I thought was just really interesting as you were sharing that is kind of like you said, that if you are a Christian, if you read the Bible, it's so similar to what demons have been doing forever and the deceptions that they've been doing forever in terms of getting people to follow them, promising health and wealth or power, and if you just make offerings and things like that. So, yeah, I guess for a Christian, it's so easy to see it's a very thinly veiled deception where it's like, man, they've been playing the same playbook forever, and people are continuing to fall into it. So kind of going back to sort of your experience and some of the practices that you were into, like you mentioned Reiki and tarot cards and things like that. So it sounds like then your experiences were. Because I think the question that I always have is when I do see people who are involved in things like that, and it sounds like you were using it to actually help people. So maybe giving people readings or things like that.

Jay Lee [00:21:18]:

I think the thing that I always wonder is, is it just a bunch of sort of, like, self deception where I think that I'm tapped into some sort of power and giving people some knowledge, but really I'm just kind of making stuff up, or is it like, no, these people are really tapped into some sort of a power. They just don't realize that it's not a benevolent power. So from based on what you've said, it kind of sounds like it's the latter, where you weren't just making stuff up, but you were tapped into something.

Elle Angel [00:21:48]:

Yes. So I wrote a whole book on channeling. I had a course and book on how to awaken your psychic ability. And that was pretty much what I base my business on, is I wanted to help people access God by accessing this ability within themselves, to connect with him and to read for others. Right.

Jay Lee [00:22:12]:

Yeah.

Elle Angel [00:22:13]:

So the intention, I believe, was good, but the method wasn't clean. There are kind of clean ways of accessing spirit, and there are dirty ways of accessing spirit. And what I mean by that is that it's got to be through Christ. It has to have a certain way for us to connect to God, right? It has to be through Jesus. Right. We're told that it has to be through Jesus. And when you try to do it in another way, it's not as clean. And so you can get a lot of interference.

Elle Angel [00:22:41]:

So after having worked with many people on that connectivity, I can safely say that it's unsafe to do so because you are absolutely accessing other realms. God does send his angels. So I don't want to say that every time somebody heard something from somebody, from something that was disembodied, that it was negative, because I don't believe that's the case all the time. God does send his angels, for sure. But again, it's not a clean way of doing so. And so, just like, if you don't have a clear connection, you can get a lot of interference. Do you remember on the old phones, like, the old cordless phones? I remember being on the phone with my friend, and then I could just pick up my neighbor's conversation, and we're just sitting on the phone listening to their conversation for a minute until it cleared up, and then we could hear each other again. And so it's the same thing when you're connecting to something else.

Elle Angel [00:23:33]:

Like, you might be wanting to connect with God, but because you don't have any discernment, you don't know how to test the spirits. The way that you're accessing it is unclean. You can have all sorts of interference and hijackings, and you wouldn't know the difference.

Jay Lee [00:23:47]:

You're saying there's more there than just self deception. What lured you in from the start was sort of what you said was maybe a false sense of control, but that doesn't mean there isn't real power within new age. And when you access certain things that you may very well be tapped into something real. It's just probably not of the Lord and not something that is good for you. Not something that God intends for you.

Elle Angel [00:24:15]:

Exactly. I like that you said that right there, that it's not good for you. Right. So even though it's attractive and even though you can have access to those things, God tells us not to do them because it's not good for us. He gives us his rules because he loves us and he wants what's best for us. So it's not because it doesn't exist. It's not because you can't achieve things that way. But that's not the right way, the healthy way, the good way of doing things.

Elle Angel [00:24:44]:

I've watched people that are in new age who use it for negative reasons, for harmful reasons, put other people out of business. I've seen really awful things happen when others get into this realm. I've seen really awful things happen as a result of really awful spiritual practices, like downright luciferian spiritual practices. So there is a power in that ultimately, never as big as the most high God. It's never that big. But it's this feeling that maybe I could do that, right? It's just the same thing. Like, maybe I could be better, maybe I don't need God. Maybe I could go my own way.

Elle Angel [00:25:24]:

I can do as I want to do. So it's a sexy, it's a little alluring kind of idea that I don't need scripture, I don't need to do all of these rules because I can attain power and money and influence this way if I use these techniques. But like you said, it's not what's good for us and what's right for us.

Jay Lee [00:25:44]:

Yeah. I mean, in that way it sounds like, again, same old playbook, right? The tactics never change. I mean, that was ultimately what led us to fall in the garden, right? Like, God's just trying to prevent you from being like him, right? You could have the same power, right. If you just go a different way. Yes, different time, but the tactics are always the same. And also, I think it's important to acknowledge that there is some power there that people can access, because I imagine, I mean, obviously, I've never been involved in it, but I imagine that that's also part of what's so deceptive about it is because you are really experiencing things and you really are maybe hearing things or seeing things or exercising maybe some sort of power or whatever. And so I think if you're experiencing something, I could imagine why that makes it so much more appealing and so much more persuasive. Like, for you, when you were kind of tapped into these things, was there anything that you look back on, you're like, yeah, this is one of the reasons why it was so persuasive to me because I was seeing this or I was experiencing this, or it helped me with whatever.

Jay Lee [00:26:55]:

You know what I mean?

Elle Angel [00:26:56]:

One of the big pieces of it was the law of attraction and was focusing on positivity. I had so many years of unhealed trauma. And so it was quite the idea to believe that if I only focused on the positive and I didn't see what I didn't want to see anyways, that I would only bring good in my life and that I would be happy and I would be healthy and I would get the things that I wanted. So it's a shortcut. It's a way to transcend reality. And, man, there are some teachers out there, there are some new age teachers out there that have their students believing that if they focus on their desired result, that is the reality. And I've watched this. They're living in such a belief of this falsehood.

Elle Angel [00:27:46]:

They're living in a false reality and forcing themselves to believe it to the point that their lives are suffering because they're not doing what they need to be doing. They're not working. They're letting themselves go. They're letting their kids go, and all they're doing is obsessing over a false reality with the hopes of it becoming their reality. So if you don't have a reality that you like, then you go into new age and you're like, oh, okay, well, if I can just believe this lie, then I don't have to face all my stuff. I don't have to do the real healing work, or I'll just focus on my chakras. I'll do some crystal healing. I'll do a little bit of Reiki and a sound bath, and, like, boom, I feel good for a couple of hours, and then that'll keep me going.

Elle Angel [00:28:36]:

So that was what did it for me, because there was so much from my past that I did not want to face. I just wanted to be with God. I wanted to have a sense of connection with him. And I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic elementary school and catholic high school, and I did not have that connection with Jesus. In my school, it was never encouraged for us to read the Bible. I learned, like, a handful of Bible stories. So I knew God existed. I knew that in my bones.

Elle Angel [00:29:09]:

But from a catholic perspective, it didn't make sense to me. I just didn't connect. It didn't give me that sense of connection and that intimacy that I found in new age, I found an intimacy there, like some celebrities talk about, literally, like, being intimate that way with spirits on the other side. So, I mean, you could take that as far as you want to go. And I really sought a deep intimacy with God and didn't want to face my past. So I found that in new age, I thought that that was better. And when I first met christian friends and I told them that I heard from God, I thought that they were going to think that I was crazy, because the Catholics that I knew at the time were like, looked at me like I had two heads when I said things like that or if I talked about spiritual gifts. Right? I didn't know that those things were written about in the Bible because I hadn't read it yet.

Elle Angel [00:30:03]:

But when they told me that was normal, I started to feel like maybe I can find a home in Christianity and feel more comfortable in it and that maybe it's going to be okay for me to face reality as long as I have Jesus here. Right? So it was a transition, a big one, but I'm so glad I did.

Jay Lee [00:30:24]:

And that's super helpful and super insightful for you to share with us. Just that it seems like the missing component in what you had previously with your experience with Catholicism, what you found in new age, and ultimately what kind of maybe helped you see that there was a future within the christian faith was the intimacy piece and the relationship piece, that having an actual true intimacy and connection with the divine is what you needed and what you were looking for. So how many years were you involved with new age? And then how did you sort of find your way out of it?

Elle Angel [00:31:07]:

I was involved with new age for about eight years. I mean, we know that when we truly seek him, then he'll reveal himself to us, right? He doesn't let our calls go unanswered. He wants to build a relationship with us. And so I really, really wanted that. I wanted that. And like I said, I felt that closeness with him, but there was just a lot of interference. I always felt like there was a lot of interference. So one day, I was putting my secondborn down for a nap, and I had this vision of Jesus.

Elle Angel [00:31:43]:

And he came to me and he told me that you have to buy a house. You have to get out of this house. And that he told me some things that were going to happen after that happened. I was like, I didn't know what to say. I was speechless. Right. I wasn't unfamiliar with visions, because I would have visions and I would have these things, but to be visited by Jesus was a very, very different story. So I went downstairs, and I remember I told my husband, I'm like, so Jesus came to me, right? So he's used to me saying that I had visions, but this was different.

Elle Angel [00:32:20]:

This was different. And we were not in a place that we could buy a house. It was just so outlandish. But it changed me, and I could still feel it as I recount that day. So after tha