Zephaniah: A Refuge in the Day of Trouble w/ Guest Kristin Nave

Show Transcript

Jay Lee [00:00:00]:

Hey. This is Pastor Jay, and you're listening to the Daily Sabbath podcast. Let me ask you a question. Now I'm sure that most of you who are listening to this probably have read the bible a lot over the years, especially if you've been a follower of Jesus for a pretty long time. But are there any books of the bible that if you're being honest, you really don't know anything about. Well, one of those books for me is the book Zephaniah. Even as a pastor for many years and having read the Bible a lot, Zephaniah has never really peaked my interest. And I'm kind of ashamed to say that I barely know anything about it.

Jay Lee [00:00:48]:

And maybe some of you guys can say the same. But today, That is all going to change because my guest today, Kristin Nave from @shelovesbible, Has written a book about Zephaniah, and she is going to convince us why this book is sort of a hidden gem, and why it is still so relevant for us today. And so here is my interview with Kristin Nave. Alright, Kristin Nave. Thank you so much for being a guest on the Daily Sabbath podcast again.

Kristin Nave [00:01:33]:

Oh, Jay, it's always such a pleasure to be here and just love talking with you. This is awesome. Thank you for having me.

Jay Lee [00:01:40]:

Yeah. And, you know, so this is your 3rd time as a guest on the podcast, so I really appreciate you taking time. Kristin, she's a Blogger and influencer, I feel like I might be the 1st person who has used the term influencer to describe you. I'm gonna own that. But, she is a blogger and influencer on Instagram under @shelovesbible. She's also a podcast cohost of Abiding Free. And if you are not following that podcast, Definitely encourage you to follow that. They've had some pretty amazing guests, such as, Francis Chan, John Noyes from Stand to Reason, and Kristin Schmucker from the Daily Grace company.

Jay Lee [00:02:16]:

And, she's also the author of 2 books. So 1 book being Wrestling to Trust, which is a bible study through Habakkuk, And also Hidden in Him, a Refuge in the Day of Trouble, which is the book that we're gonna be talking about today, bible study through Zephaniah. So I'm really excited to get into this with you. But before we jump into talking about Zephaniah, So recently, I was a guest on another podcast, and they played a game. And I thought that was really fun because anybody who knows me knows I love playing games. And so, Kristin, if you don't mind, if you allow me to draw you into my my gaming here. And, are you familiar with the game password?

Kristin Nave [00:02:56]:

I am a little familiar. Yes.

Jay Lee [00:02:58]:

Okay. So we're gonna play a game of password with, bible words. So I've got a list here of about 7 bible words, and And so they're all 1 word answers, and I'm gonna give you 1 word clues. So I can't I can't describe, but I can just give you 1 word clues. And so when you think you know the answer, just go ahead and call out your guesses, and I'll let you

Kristin Nave [00:03:17]:

know when

Jay Lee [00:03:18]:

you get it. Yeah. And, for those of you guys who are listening, if you also like Password, see when you can figure out the answers to these. Okay?

Kristin Nave [00:03:25]:

Probably before me.

Jay Lee [00:03:27]:

May maybe. I tried to kind of order them from easiest to hardest. We'll Okay.

Kristin Nave [00:03:31]:

Good. I hope they're easy.

Jay Lee [00:03:33]:

Okay. So here we go. Here's the first word. Animals. Rain.

Kristin Nave [00:03:42]:

Noah's Ark?

Jay Lee [00:03:43]:

Ark. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. That was the easiest one. I really thought you were gonna get it after animals, but it's okay. We're warming up.

Kristin Nave [00:03:50]:

Probably should have.

Jay Lee [00:03:52]:

Okay. Here we go. Ready? 3.

Kristin Nave [00:03:56]:

Trinity.

Jay Lee [00:03:56]:

Yes.

Kristin Nave [00:03:57]:

Well, that's not in the bible. Oh, okay. That is true. Yeah. Is actually not in the bible.

Jay Lee [00:04:02]:

You're right. You got me. It's not in the bible. Well, it's though I do have an episode in the past about the trinity, so you guys can go to the back catalog and check it out. Okay. Doing good. Next one. Salvation.

Kristin Nave [00:04:14]:

Jesus. That's like the preschool answer. Works. Grace?

Jay Lee [00:04:21]:

Yes.

Kristin Nave [00:04:23]:

Blue. Oh, so you did the opposite of

Jay Lee [00:04:25]:

what you did. I wasn't sure if you were gonna catch that, so I tried to, you know, use, like, a A facial expression and intonation to be like, not this, but okay. Good. Oh, you're you're doing great. Yeah. You're good at this game.

Kristin Nave [00:04:35]:

Okay.

Jay Lee [00:04:36]:

If we ever have a chance to go on this game show, I think we would be a good duo. Okay. Now a couple more. Getting a little bit harder here.

Kristin Nave [00:04:43]:

Okay. Uh-oh. Forty. Oh, is, desert? Israelites in the desert?

Jay Lee [00:04:51]:

Holy Spirit.

Kristin Nave [00:04:52]:

Jesus, when he was tempted in the desert? By holy spirit

Jay Lee [00:04:56]:

Tongues.

Kristin Nave [00:04:59]:

Okay. Wait. You said, Pentecost?

Jay Lee [00:05:02]:

Yeah. No? That's good. Yeah. It's Pentecost. Good job. I should stop clapping. Sorry if that's bothering your ears. Those are because you are listening.

Jay Lee [00:05:10]:

Okay.

Kristin Nave [00:05:10]:

Although I yeah. You had you had told me it was 1 word, and I was giving you, like, Full phrases, so I should've I should've included that I was wrong.

Jay Lee [00:05:18]:

Jesus in the wilderness. Yeah. Jesus in the 20 days of temptation. Oh, that's good. That's good. You had to work you had to eliminate the choices of 5th 40. Okay. 2 more.

Jay Lee [00:05:28]:

2 more.

Kristin Nave [00:05:28]:

Go ahead. Okay.

Jay Lee [00:05:31]:

Actually, this is easy. I should have put this earlier. Okay. It's like

Kristin Nave [00:05:34]:

No pressure. I'm like, I better get it.

Jay Lee [00:05:36]:

Alright. Here we go. Wilderness.

Kristin Nave [00:05:39]:

Israelites?

Jay Lee [00:05:42]:

Israelites.

Kristin Nave [00:05:44]:

Okay.

Jay Lee [00:05:46]:

Pharoah.

Kristin Nave [00:05:47]:

Oh, Egypt?

Jay Lee [00:05:50]:

Promised land.

Kristin Nave [00:05:52]:

Canaan?

Jay Lee [00:05:55]:

Book.

Kristin Nave [00:05:56]:

Exodus.

Jay Lee [00:05:57]:

Yes. There you go. Good one.

Kristin Nave [00:06:00]:

I love it. Y'all it's easy, and it took, like, 6 words.

Jay Lee [00:06:02]:

That's true. I guess the hard part was the fact that, yeah, the word is the name of the book. Yeah. Okay. Last one.

Kristin Nave [00:06:09]:

K. Life. Oh, life.

Jay Lee [00:06:16]:

Crucifixion.

Kristin Nave [00:06:18]:

Resurrection. Question.

Jay Lee [00:06:20]:

Yes. Alright. Alright. Great job. Well, you you managed to get all of the words that I have for you. I I

Kristin Nave [00:06:28]:

don't your job's harder, though.

Jay Lee [00:06:30]:

No. I think you did great, and I think you also demonstrated your bible knowledge because I think You you you were right on all of these. So the all the clues that I gave you immediately were in the right vicinity. So, yeah, thanks for indulging me on that. I was, I don't know. It's fun for me. So today, we are talking about your book Hidden in Him, a Refuge in the Day of Trouble.

Jay Lee [00:06:57]:

And so that is a Bible study through the book of Zephaniah, which I think is probably a book that many of us, including myself, if I'm being honest, are not super familiar with. So, just out of curiosity, like, why a study in Zephaniah?

Kristin Nave [00:07:16]:

Well, really to the point you just brought up is that it is just an overlooked book. It's a book that many have not studied, and I'm all about the underdogs. I I really have a heart If this sounds kinda strange, but I really have a heart for the books that go overlooked because they are God's word, and I believe there's so many treasures in them that Maybe just take a little bit more digging, but they're so beautiful when we unearth them. And I did a poll on my Instagram. This was Maybe before or during while I was writing the study on Zephaniah, and I asked how many people had, first Done a bible study on Zephaniah, and there is about 92% who hadn't. Mhmm. And then I also asked how many had heard a Sermon on Zephaniah at their church, and about 84% had never heard a sermon on it. And then when we I started doing this study with women.

Kristin Nave [00:08:14]:

I was surprised at how many, you know, believers who had been reading the Bible for a long time and never even read through the book in its entirety. And that was really me up until I really dove into it maybe 2 or 3 years ago, so I totally understand that. It is. I mean, it it starts off like, the first part is, like, god saying, I'm gonna wipe away everything off the face of the earth.

Jay Lee [00:08:36]:

Yeah.

Kristin Nave [00:08:37]:

So it's not very welcoming. It it doesn't you know, Zephaniah doesn't give you, like, a warm cup of coffee and a cozy blanket. You know?

Jay Lee [00:08:44]:

Just drops you're right in the middle of the, deep.

Kristin Nave [00:08:47]:

Exactly. So, yeah, I think it was really just wanting to highlight this overlooked book.

Jay Lee [00:08:53]:

Yeah. That's great. And I think that's one of the things that I appreciate about you and like about you is, man, if you just wanted to write a bestseller or something like that, it's like, hey. Let's Just go to Romans or something like that. But I I do really see that your heart is you you want people to study the Bible, and you want people to know their Bible and and be able to, to to mine the riches of it. And you're like, hey. You know, this is a book that not a lot of people are familiar with, and there's a lot to gain there. And So I I love that your heart is like, hey.

Jay Lee [00:09:23]:

I'm just gonna focus on because your other book is on Habakkuk, which is also another book That is what my, old seminary professor would call the crunchy part of our bible because we don't read those parts Oh. Very often. So the pages are still yeah. The pages are still very crisp.

Kristin Nave [00:09:39]:

Very crisp. Yeah.

Jay Lee [00:09:40]:

They're very crunchy. And so I appreciate that about you that you you're you're really your heart is you're not just going for what's the sexiest book I could write? Write a a book on, but just like, what do the people of God need to hear and what are they missing?

Kristin Nave [00:09:54]:

Yeah. So I really appreciate that.

Jay Lee [00:09:56]:

Okay. So let's yeah. So I'm really excited because, I'll just be honest, man. I'm one of those people who's not very familiar with Zephaniah. So could you just give us, like, just like a really 1,000 foot view, what is Zephaniah actually about?

Kristin Nave [00:10:10]:

Yeah. Well, Zephaniah was a prophet of God, and he prophesied during the time of the reign of this king named Josiah, who I believe was 8 years old

Jay Lee [00:10:22]:

Oh.

Kristin Nave [00:10:22]:

When he came, to reign, does anyone know an 8 year old that would be ready to be king? But strangely enough, Josiah was actually so his father I think it was, like, his father, his grandfather. He had So his father I think it was, like, his father, his grandfather. He had a line of wicked kings before him. So his family lineage was Pretty corrupt, and that's what I think we can be encouraged by too is that, you know, he was in a in a line of, wicked kings, and he really sought to Turn the tables of God's people to to worship God, to go back to his commands. And so, Josiah, like, brought out God's command and, he did these beautiful things, but there was a long line of this, like, wickedness, this corruption going on in God's people. And so There's still almost what I would call like this, like, leftover, you know, wickedness going on. And so, Zephaniah prophesied about just judgment that would be coming. This is a hard part to to the nation surrounding Judah at the time, which was God's people, it's the southern kingdom.

Kristin Nave [00:11:27]:

That was the kingdom Zephaniah was prophesying to. So there was judgment coming for the wickedness that was around them. They were you know, Assyria was in power, but they were kind of declining in their power, And then Babylon was raising in power. They're getting stronger and stronger. So it was a time of political transition too, and which I think can relate to, but all that to say, this was Zephaniah was basically saying there's judgment coming for both the surrounding nations, but also to God's People for going their own way and rebelling against God. So it it starts off pretty pretty tough with a message of judgment. Oh, wow. So

Jay Lee [00:12:08]:

Okay. So in terms of the time period of, like, biblical history, it sounds like then the Northern Kingdom of Israel has already fallen to the Assyrians, but it's before, like, Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians have come in on the, the southern kingdom.

Kristin Nave [00:12:24]:

Yes. Exactly. Exactly. So, I mean, Judah knows what happened to Israel, and yet they're still kind of Practicing even idolatry and all these things, but there is a beautiful message of Zephaniah. But that's I would say that's kind of the intro. That's what we are welcomed into in the context.

Jay Lee [00:12:43]:

So the stage is yeah. It's it's pretty rough. It sounds pretty pretty brutal. So there's judgment coming to the surrounding nations, but also to the people of God themselves. So yeah. And, you know, I think in in looking through the book, and I was also you also did a series of talks on this on Abiding Free, right, on the podcast.

Kristin Nave [00:13:02]:

You did.

Jay Lee [00:13:02]:

Yeah. So I I listened through some of that as well. And so you kinda mentioned that one of the things that you saw as you were going through Zephaniah Is what you felt like were a lot of parallels with even our culture today? I would love you know, you don't have to give away the whole But No. That's alright.

Kristin Nave [00:13:19]:

I love talking about it.

Jay Lee [00:13:20]:

Yeah. I would love to hear, like, what were some of the issues that were going on with God's people back in Zephaniah's time that you feel like you see in our time today or or feel like are parallels today. Would you mind sharing some of those?

Kristin Nave [00:13:33]:

Absolutely. Well, I I mean, I don't know about you, Jay, but I I I feel like there is just a sadness and a shock right now, You know, amongst believers about kinda what's going on in our culture and, you know, the evil that we're surrounded by, and I think It's so relatable. You know, it's happening back then, and so there's this, like, corruption and evil. And I think, that's, You know, again, that's so relatable. I also think, you know, again, just this political transition and how how do we respond to that. And, I also think 1 big thing in it is just this cry for, like, gosh, we see all this evil and injustice happening. And evil and injustice seem to get away with a lot. You know? Mhmm.

Kristin Nave [00:14:17]:

They're they're it's kinda like that sibling that, like, gets away with everything. You know what I mean? You just it's like, But it's it's worse, obviously, than that because it's it's evil and it's injustice, and there's this sadness of, like, how long is this gonna last? And does god even see this? Is is evil gonna have the last say? Because it just seems like evil prospers. And I just think, again, that's another thing that we can relate to as we're looking around what's going on, but I think the humbling thing in all of it is that as we've already mentioned, like, god was going to be bringing judgment to the nations. Mhmm. But, sometimes I think and I I just wanna share personally. I share this humbly that I can be lamenting the evil around me, but then almost dismissing some of my own sin and minimizing it. And I think one of the messages here is, you know, we have to be praying. We have to be responding to the outside evil, but we've really gotta also ask ourselves what's going on within In essence, what do we need to deal with in our own homes, our own churches, our own lives Mhmm.

Kristin Nave [00:15:19]:

That is also, you know, against God. And so, Yeah. Yeah. I think that and then I think just 1 more thing

Jay Lee [00:15:26]:

Mhmm.

Kristin Nave [00:15:26]:

That's so relatable is, you know, Josiah was what we would say is like a good king, in the sense of, you know, no one's good apart from Jesus, but good meaning that he brought the people's hearts back to worship God. So he was a good ruler. He was a good king, and yet there were still problems. Yeah. And and Josiah wasn't perfect either. And I think I think no matter where we we are at with the leaders that we see that are over us, some of us think certain leaders are good. Some of us think they're bad, you know, vice versa. But what I think we can all come together on is that there is just always going to be problems.

Kristin Nave [00:16:06]:

There's no, You know, political leader that is going to beat us out of what we would see as evil, and it's just we have to look to the perfect king.

Jay Lee [00:16:14]:

Mhmm.

Kristin Nave [00:16:15]:

Yeah. So I think that's relatable too. It's just like, darn it. Like, Josiah was supposed to change everything. And yeah. So

Jay Lee [00:16:22]:

Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a Point I and and super relevant. Especially next year, we're going into another presidential Yeah. Exactly. Cycle and

Kristin Nave [00:16:31]:

Yep. Yay. No. Yeah.

Jay Lee [00:16:32]:

Yeah. It's everybody's favorite.

Kristin Nave [00:16:34]:

It's like the worst year ever. Right now?

Jay Lee [00:16:36]:

Hey. Checking mail is gonna be miserable next year. All those the political flyers to to throw away. Oh, they're like, yep. But, yeah, you know, just like so, obviously, there's gonna be tons of stuff online and, you know, Yeah. Things are always very kind of, like, you know, our side versus their side and a lot of debating, and things do tend to get very heated. But I think you're right. It's it's important for us to kinda keep in mind.

Jay Lee [00:17:02]:

Hey. Not that it's not important. I mean, having good leaders over us It's very important in the their policies and their influence over not just policies, but their influence over the culture. At least in my opinion, like somebody like the president, who has a lot of authority and a lot of power, but, you know, they're not omnipotent in our in our country. Right? Like, they're they can't do anything that they want, but I feel like Their position still is very important outside of policy because they have a heavy influence on the culture of our country, the ethos and the ethic of our culture. So not to say that it doesn't matter who wins or loses and we should care about it, but you're right. I mean, at the end of the day, whoever it is, and however great our policies are. Yeah, there, it's almost like there's this gravity of sin that is always pulling pulling things down to the earth.

Jay Lee [00:17:53]:

Yeah. And no matter how how much we're able to accomplish, no matter how high, we're able to soar, so to speak, in terms of the good that we can accomplish. They have the the the gravity of sin is always tending to to pull us down, and Do we do ultimately need to look to Jesus. But, yeah, there's so much there. So one of the big things that we can take from Josiah is or not just that. From Zephaniah Is that we can't just always be looking out there, but, you know, we have to look within ourselves as well because Yeah. I think you're right because sometimes we we look out. We we tend to think of sin as something that's out there, but Right.

Jay Lee [00:18:31]:

Kind of don't see the connection to our own souls and our own sin. And so, like, were there some things in particular that the Israelites were falling into? Particular sins that God was like, hey. It's not just the nations around you. It's you too.

Kristin Nave [00:18:46]:

Yeah. That is a great question. Yeah. Like, what Specifically, were the Israelites doing? And that is also very relatable because I think it's in Zephaniah 1:8. It says that One of the accusations against Israelites is it says you've put on the foreign attire of the nations, and what that means, is what they were doing is most likely it was actually, like, literal clothes. They were, like, wearing, you know, the clothes of the pagan nations, which That part's not necessarily a related book. I mean, we wear all different clothes and stuff, but back but back then, it really symbolized pagan practices as well, and it was almost like, You know, they were wanting they were trying to fit in, and they most likely were also taking on some of those practices, not just Representing them by their clothing. And I just remember first reading that and thinking, wow.

Kristin Nave [00:19:38]:

I I can totally relate to that. Isn't that hard right now, you know, knowing how to be in the world, but not of the world. And I know that's, like, a common phrase, but there's there's times we do need to look different. And, you know, there's times, know, we want to be a part of the world. I remember you brought up Francis Chan. This is kinda funny, but he just says so things, like, so raw and funny. And I remember one time he was like, you know, some of you guys are just weird. And you say it's like persecution, but you're just weird.

Kristin Nave [00:20:16]:

And so I think his point was sometimes, you know, maybe there's some of us who are different, but

Jay Lee [00:20:22]:

Yeah.

Kristin Nave [00:20:22]:

It's not because we're you know, it's not the righteous way.

Jay Lee [00:20:26]:

And so

Kristin Nave [00:20:26]:

some of us you know, some of us can fall on that end where we think we're doing the right thing by being Really different, but it's really not for the sake of bringing glory to God or just being weird. Right?

Jay Lee [00:20:38]:

Yeah. The application is not be different. The application is be set apart.

Kristin Nave [00:20:43]:

Yes. Exactly. And and I know we're all I think there's so much, like, grace there because, Gosh. We're all struggling with that. Right? Like, how to you know, my husband and I have just on a very, very practical note, this week, my husband and I are we're going to his work party. There are just so many awesome people. And you know? But we also have to consider, You know, what does it look like to be there, to know we can have a good time, to be to be fun? But also, you know, whether it's in conversations or, You know, some of the practices or activities that happen there just you know, it's like we wanna be there. We wanna be there, but how do we also, like, not Take on that, you know, born attire and still be, like you said, set apart, but still be a blessing there and be fun.

Kristin Nave [00:21:31]:

And we can we we don't have to be, like, Total weirdos. Like, we can we can be fun in conversation and Yeah. Sorry. And and so as you can see, I really like bringing the Bible to life. I think, You know, because this book can sound so unrelatable, but this is it. Like, this is how we you know? And so that's the question I think for us is, Like, I love that you said that we don't always have to be different, but we're we're called to be set apart.

Jay Lee [00:21:55]:

Yeah. That's a good point. It's very relatable. And Because, you know, maybe clothes seems like such a mundane thing. Right?

Kristin Nave [00:22:03]:

Right.

Jay Lee [00:22:03]:

It doesn't seem like that big of a deal. But What it signified, I think. Yeah. I love that insight that you're bringing out that it was the fact that it signified that They were trying so hard to fit into the culture and maybe more importantly, the spirit of the surrounding nations and adopting their, their practices and Maybe their world views and things like that and assimilating into that. And so, yeah, I mean, even for us today, it's a it's a good point where Not always recognizing how my little assimilations to things that are not you know, things that are pleasing to to God Are contributing to maybe the ineffectiveness of the church or the ineffectiveness of myself even in being a witness?

Kristin Nave [00:22:46]:

Mhmm. And one of the things that I just have people look up in the study is there's this beautiful, verse in Isaiah, and I apologize. I don't remember the exact Reference, but it's it's this amazing verse about how, Isaiah is, like, putting on basically these garments of glory. And so I think sometimes you know? And I can just focus on what I'm not supposed to do. Like, okay. I don't wanna be like the world. I don't wanna be like the world, but why? It's it's not just like God's like you know, don't be like the world. Don't wear these, like, worldly garments or practices.

Kristin Nave [00:23:22]:

It's like Because we've been and and Isaiah talks about they're like garments of salvation. They're garments of honor and beauty and a new identity. And so it's like when we realize that, we don't have to focus as much anymore. Like, don't be world because we we know who we are, and we just wanna live from that Naturally, it's like a beautiful picture of, you know, living from who we are supposed to be. Like, we're meant to shine like stars in the heavens. And, You know, when when we don't live like the world, it's not like we're blacked out. We're not like these shadows that are hanging out with the world. We're like bright Shining stars that bring glory to God.

Kristin Nave [00:24:01]:

It's like a beautiful thing. So Yeah.

Jay Lee [00:24:03]:

No. I I love that analogy, by the way. Thank you so much for sharing that because It's like if you're if you're just focused on what you shouldn't wear in the analogy, then you're just you're just gonna be naked. Yeah.

Kristin Nave [00:24:18]:

Right here just like there.

Jay Lee [00:24:19]:

But if you're focused on what you should put on, then automatically, you're not gonna be wearing what you're not supposed to you're you're you're if you're focused on what we're putting on in Christ, you know, that that glory and the truth and the love, Yeah. The the holiness, then automatically we're not putting on the world's clothes. I I love I love that analogy. It's kind of like, we don't wanna be 0 sum Players, that's that's analogy my friend always uses, but, like, we don't wanna be 0 sum. We're just we're just trying to be at 0. Like, we we're just trying to take off sin, but, yeah, What are we about? What has Christ called us to? And if we put that on automatically, those other things are going to kind of naturally fall off of us. So love that. I love that.

Jay Lee [00:25:01]:

Is there anything else that you see kind of in the people of God in Zephaniah's day that you feel like maybe relates to us today?

Kristin Nave [00:25:10]:

Probably the one other big thing that really stood out to me in this study is in the 1st chapter, it Starts off right into the judgment, but there's just this phrase in there that's almost just sad. It just says it says God wants his people to turn back to him. And I think one thing I just reflected on and as I studied that phrase is Basically means people who have just drifted away from God and and from, you know, who he is, and I think we can do that in the little and big ways. You know? We use that term backsliding. Right? And that usually is like this dramatic phrase of somebody who has, You know, walked away or whatnot, but but we also do it in the little ways. You know? When we go about our day and we don't even think about him or, You know, we don't spend time with him, and it's just here's this, like, loving God who's just pointing out to his people, like, I'm better than life.

Jay Lee [00:26:05]:

Mhmm.

Kristin Nave [00:26:05]:

Come back to me. And so, I think probably in we go through seasons we all can relate to in the big and little ways, You know, needing to come back to God because we've turned back from him. We've gone the other way.

Jay Lee [00:26:18]:

Yeah. And I I love that picture of It's a relationship, a loving father who who wants us to come back to him and who misses us. I I think that's great. I actually just got back from a a trip with a few high school friends who just for various reasons, just because life is busy and also, you know, with COVID, I haven't seen a couple of them in, You know, several years. And so, you know, it's just nice, you know, getting together after a long time, and it's kind of like, man, what, what, why has it been so long since we've seen each other? Like, You know what I mean? Like, it's just so good when we get back together. It's like, man, why has it been so long since we've done this? And I kinda get that feeling of what you're saying here where it's like, You know, God is trying to call us back to remember, like, remember what we had, you know, remember how important this relationship is like, Come back. We can we can have that again. So I love that future.

Jay Lee [00:27:16]:

Maybe then just to kind of tie it all together, what do you feel like are I mean, I'm sure there's lots of them, but if you were going to just give us, like, what you feel like are some Key applications or key takeaways for us as believers today from the book of Zephaniah, what what would those be?

Kristin Nave [00:27:33]:

Yeah. One of the things that encouraged me in this book, and I really feel like it's, so relatable to What's going on now as well is that there is a decline of faith, and some of God's people who are maybe putting on the foreign attire or whatnot, they are Really going the toward pagan ways. They are they are going to reject God, even some of his people. And then there's the surrounding nations. So there's probably far more, you know, people that don't believe in god and Even ones that we would want or think would are falling away. And I think we're I think a lot of us are seeing that right now, and there's a lot of People that are walking away from God, and I have so much compassion. And I I just wanna say that's you and and you're deconstructing. I just want you to know that you're loved, and I hope that you can ask the tough questions.

Kristin Nave [00:28:28]:

And I know there's, like, church hurt, and there's just so many reasons why people are kind of walking away, and there's Just a lot of compassion there. But I think for those of us that that are still walking with God, it can be hard and sad, and we feel almost like a loneliness or It just can kind of eat at our faith, and there's this theme in Zephaniah of a remnant. And, you know, if you know what that word means, it's just like the Small number that that really stays and that God's going to protect this remnant. And, just kind of a side note. So Zephaniah means, hidden one. That is, yeah, that is the meaning in Hebrew of Zephaniah. And then In the book, it says that, basically, those that remain humble and, basically, that walk with God will be hidden in the day of trouble. It's so beautiful.

Kristin Nave [00:29:20]:

And so what it means is for those that just keep walking with him, keep going, you know, ask hard questions, but keep Pressing on into the Lord, like, he will protect us in the day of trouble. And the day of trouble is really just that ultimate judgment, and Thank goodness for Jesus. Like Mhmm. There's judgment in this book toward God's people, but we will not face ultimate judgment if we are under, you know, the grace of of Jesus for what he did on the cross which is Awesome. So that's 1 is just this remnant. And then, I mean, honestly, one of the the peaks of this story is this really weird thing that happens Jay , where like, most of the first part of the book is about judgment. And then all of a sudden, there's, like, this abrupt shift to God's love, and it says he's, like, singing over his people. And it says he is quiet in his love, which just means he's, like, Thinking upon his love for his people, and it, like, doesn't make sense.

Kristin Nave [00:30:14]:

And even commentaries are, like it's, like, so abrupt, the shift. And, like, there's it's even just weird writing, you think. You know? You're like, this doesn't make sense. There's no intro to this. Yeah. And that's, yeah, that's the whole point Is that God's love doesn't make sense, and the fact that this almighty god literally sits in quietness because he's thinking upon how much And how he loves us is just incredible.

Jay Lee [00:30:42]:

Yeah. You know how, like, there's, like, worship songs that talk about, like, how God is singing over us? So is that Yes. That's coming from Zephaniah?

Kristin Nave [00:30:51]:

Yeah. I would say probably. Most likely.

Jay Lee [00:30:54]:

Maybe there's other references. I don't I don't think there's that many, but, yeah, it's interesting that This very kind of harsh book also gives us one of the most, yeah, one of the softest pictures of, like, God is singing over his people. Like, I I don't know when I hear that imagery, it it always reminds me of, like, our parents, like, singing over there, like, Their newborn baby or something like yeah. It is kinda weird that there's such a a drastic shift in tone, but, You know, I appreciate your tone for those who are struggling in their faith and and maybe like deconstructing and, you know, just acknowledging and validating that There are probably good reasons why they are going through something like that. Maybe they have been hurt by a church or by people who call themselves followers of Jesus. And so I appreciate your tone that you're really considerate of them, that there there are probably very valid reasons why they're going through deconstruction or have even walked away, and you're not discounting that. But I also appreciate that you have a word or that, I guess, has a word for those who are Still walking with the Lord, and, yeah, maybe it is a little discouraging to see that there are a lot of people around them who are struggling in their faith or, you know, have already walked away and the Lord had an encouraging word for them too, the this remnant. And for me, when I think of the the word remnant, it kinda reminds me of, like, a a tree stump.

Jay Lee [00:32:21]:

Like, a a tree that has been cut off. Right? But there's that remnant there that's still there. Right? That will, yeah, that will grow again, into new life. And so, yeah, kind of when you were talking about and describing it, that's what it made think of to to hold on to that hope.

Kristin Nave [00:32:35]:

Mhmm. We are living in a world of such juxtapositions, meaning I mean, even just the other day, as as you're talking about with with deconstruction and whatnot. But even just the other day, I had a woman comment on one of my posts saying Basically saying if you have doubt, you don't have faith, and they're they're literally the enemies of each other. And and I just hopefully, I did it kindly, but I just Really kind of disagreed. You know? I've I've just seen how we can have both. You know? We can have This faith that God has given us and believing in him, but also have these doubts we're struggling through. And, on the same note, I think, You know, judgment is such an unpopular topic. And and not only that, but I think we tend to think of it we juxtapose it with love.

Kristin Nave [00:33:24]:

And yet what Zephaniah shows us is that God's judgment is because of his love. They are companions. They are part of God's, like, perfect character. Yeah. And, I I just think that was just a Huge thing for me because it's like they're working together. His love and judgment are always working together. Mhmm. You know, I think we don't want judgment for ourselves, but then all of us want judgment for evil.

Kristin Nave [00:33:52]:

I mean, really, I I think even, You know, atheists will will argue against that, but they don't they don't wanna see somebody murder someone and get away with it either. You know? So No matter what we believe, we all want judgment. It's just a matter of, like, why do we want it, and what does it show us? What does it point to? And I believe it points to the love of God. Yeah. Zephaniah shows us that.

Jay Lee [00:34:13]:

No. That's a great word, I think. Yeah. That it's true. I think exactly what you said that a lot of times we do kinda juxtapose judgment and love as if they are 2, like, mutually exclusive things.

Kristin Nave [00:34:25]:

Yeah.

Jay Lee [00:34:25]:

But I think what you said is exactly right that, You know, if there is no judgment, then suffering, injustice, all these things, like, continue on forever. Mhmm. It's because God loves that Yeah. And it's because God is compassionate that he will bring an end to those things once and for all. So, yeah, I appreciate that. That's a good word. And, you know, it's true because I have there all are a lot of people who I have talked to who do have that kind of perspective and do Kind of like, they question the validity of a lot of the things that they read in scripture because

Kristin Nave [00:35:00]:

Yeah.

Jay Lee [00:35:01]:

It talks about judgment. So they kind of, You kind of get the feeling like they sort of tried to discount that as well. That's not that part is not inspired or that part Can't be from God because God would not be a god of judgment, and and it's not in line with love. Right? Jesus says, the greatest commandments are, you know, to to love God and love one another. Well, a God who is angry or wrathful and who is going to judge is not in line with what Jesus said about love. Therefore, for that can't be from

Kristin Nave [00:35:29]:

God. Exactly.

Jay Lee [00:35:30]:

Yeah. It's very important, I think, the point that you're making there. Well, man, I I don't know about you guys who are listening, but This definitely has made me more like, man, why have I not been reading Zephaniah for all of these years? Yeah. And it's very short. Right? Zephaniah is only, like, 3 chapters long.

Kristin Nave [00:35:47]:

Yeah. It's very short. It really is. But it I have no judgment for Speaking of, for people who haven't read it, because it isn't necessarily one of those books you can just read on the surface and get a lot out of. It does It does take a little bit of work, you know, for this book. So there is so much grace and compassion. If you have never studied this book because it It is. Yeah.

Kristin Nave [00:36:08]:

But that's why that's why I wanna do it to help you know, hopefully help.

Jay Lee [00:36:12]:

Yeah. No. Really. Yeah. I mean, I think it's such a valuable resource that you've put out. And so Wanna strongly encourage everyone as well as myself to, you know, get into Zephaniah and just in general, get into those books who that you are not very familiar with. But, You know, if you do want to get deeper into that because I'm sure we are just scratching the surface here with this conversation. So I wanna highly encourage you guys again.

Jay Lee [00:36:36]:

The book is called Hidden in Him, A Refuge in the Day of Trouble. But, Yeah. Kristin, what would be the best ways for us to get the book. And just in general, what are the best ways for people to connect more with you?

Kristin Nave [00:36:48]:

Oh, thanks for asking that. The Zephaniah Bible study is on Amazon, And I write mostly on, you know, Instagram is is really where, I write most of my content. So yeah. And we, you know, we have the podcast Abiding Free, but if you follow me on Instagram, you that's shared there too. So

Jay Lee [00:37:07]:

Alright, guys. So I wanna highly encourage you guys checkout Hidden in Him, a Refuge in the Day of Trouble. Kristin, influencer.

Kristin Nave [00:37:17]:

Yeah? I have a hard time calling myself back. So

Jay Lee [00:37:20]:

I will call you that, but thank you so much for being on the podcast again.

Kristin Nave [00:37:24]:

Thank you, Jay.

Jay Lee [00:37:27]:

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